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	<title>Comments on: Longest-Lived Soup Density in Conway&#039;s Game of Life</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/</link>
	<description>A blog of recreational math and quantum information theory</description>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/#comment-594</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-593&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Julian&lt;/a&gt; - There certainly infinite-sized GoL grids that stabilize - just put an infinite number of still lifes at various positions in the plane. If you mean whether or not a random infinite GoL grid never stabilizes with high probability, then the answer is not 100% clear to me. I would naively expect that almost all infinite grids never stabilize, but I also don&#039;t know of a theorem to that effect.

You could do a simple sketch proof I suppose by noting that almost all random infinite grids will contain (your favourite methuselah with lifespan x) somewhere, so the whole thing must have lifespan at least x. Since x was arbitrary, the total lifespan is larger than any finite number.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-593" rel="nofollow">@Julian</a> &#8211; There certainly infinite-sized GoL grids that stabilize &#8211; just put an infinite number of still lifes at various positions in the plane. If you mean whether or not a random infinite GoL grid never stabilizes with high probability, then the answer is not 100% clear to me. I would naively expect that almost all infinite grids never stabilize, but I also don&#8217;t know of a theorem to that effect.</p>
<p>You could do a simple sketch proof I suppose by noting that almost all random infinite grids will contain (your favourite methuselah with lifespan x) somewhere, so the whole thing must have lifespan at least x. Since x was arbitrary, the total lifespan is larger than any finite number.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/#comment-593</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanieljohnston.com/?p=418#comment-593</guid>
		<description>Hey :-) just saw this post off Google. Is it true that infinite sized Game of Life grids never equilibriate? I&#039;ve never seen a theorem to that effect. Is it known?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey <img src='http://www.njohnston.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  just saw this post off Google. Is it true that infinite sized Game of Life grids never equilibriate? I&#8217;ve never seen a theorem to that effect. Is it known?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nathaniel Johnston &#187; The Maximal Lifespan of Patterns in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life</title>
		<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Johnston &#187; The Maximal Lifespan of Patterns in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanieljohnston.com/?p=418#comment-92</guid>
		<description>[...] a couple of recent posts, I argued that random patterns in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life tend, on average, to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a couple of recent posts, I argued that random patterns in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life tend, on average, to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel Johnston &#187; Longevity in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life Revisited</title>
		<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Johnston &#187; Longevity in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life Revisited</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanieljohnston.com/?p=418#comment-91</guid>
		<description>[...] couple of weeks ago, I posted some intuition that suggested that, in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life, the longest-lived patterns [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] couple of weeks ago, I posted some intuition that suggested that, in Conway&#8217;s Game of Life, the longest-lived patterns [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel Johnston &#187; The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search</title>
		<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Johnston &#187; The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanieljohnston.com/?p=418#comment-90</guid>
		<description>[...] I mentioned in this post, one way to learn about the general behaviour of Conway&#8217;s Game of Life (or any other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I mentioned in this post, one way to learn about the general behaviour of Conway&#8217;s Game of Life (or any other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://www.njohnston.ca/2009/06/longest-lived-soup-density-in-conways-game-of-life/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanieljohnston.com/?p=418#comment-89</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-465&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Elithrion&lt;/a&gt; - Haha yeah, I actually had already written the script and started the computations when you made the suggestion. Great minds think alike, I guess ;)

You make a good point about the median vs. mean thing - I&#039;ll definitely create median data if/when I post the results of the toroidal version of this script.

And I completely meant to attach the source code to this post (as I try to do with all my coding posts), but I forgot and it unfortunately is sitting on a harddrive halfway around the world right now. I&#039;ll update the post to include the source code in two weeks time ;)

Also, just as an FYI in case you&#039;re curious - I tried something semi-similar to what you described about trying to create methuselahs based on observing past long-lived patterns and evolving the density used. Instead I tried things like taking the top half of one methuselah (possibly modified by one or two cells) and the bottom half of another methuselah (also possibly mutated a bit) and checked whether that was long-lived. It was basically a standard cross-breed and mutate genetic algorithm, but unfortunately it yielded results that were no better than a uniformly random search, due to the high volatility of methuselahs. Silly Life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-465" rel="nofollow">@Elithrion</a> &#8211; Haha yeah, I actually had already written the script and started the computations when you made the suggestion. Great minds think alike, I guess <img src='http://www.njohnston.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You make a good point about the median vs. mean thing &#8211; I&#8217;ll definitely create median data if/when I post the results of the toroidal version of this script.</p>
<p>And I completely meant to attach the source code to this post (as I try to do with all my coding posts), but I forgot and it unfortunately is sitting on a harddrive halfway around the world right now. I&#8217;ll update the post to include the source code in two weeks time <img src='http://www.njohnston.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also, just as an FYI in case you&#8217;re curious &#8211; I tried something semi-similar to what you described about trying to create methuselahs based on observing past long-lived patterns and evolving the density used. Instead I tried things like taking the top half of one methuselah (possibly modified by one or two cells) and the bottom half of another methuselah (also possibly mutated a bit) and checked whether that was long-lived. It was basically a standard cross-breed and mutate genetic algorithm, but unfortunately it yielded results that were no better than a uniformly random search, due to the high volatility of methuselahs. Silly Life.</p>
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